Tina wants to share an experience she had at the Magnolia Library where a man was viewing porn on the library computer:
hi, maybe you can help me. i was just in our local branch, minding my own business and was assaulted by porn as i walked by the computers (walked from non-fiction to the children’s section by the windows that face 34th ave). i was there with my 4-year-old daughter and i told the librarian and she said there was nothing she could do. needless to say we gathered up our stuff and quickly left. i mean, this is happening in the middle of the day during summer. it’s such a shame that we allow this to go on in magnolia. i really really want to do something to make it stop but haven’t gotten very far by calling the mayors office or city librarian (or talking to the nice folks at our branch). can you maybe put the warning out that this is going on here?
Anybody else run into this situation? Let us know in comments below.
36 responses so far ↓
1 Drew // Jul 23, 2009 at 3:36 pm
eh, I say live and let live.
But if you really want to do something about it, next time you see someone viewing pornography on a library computer and you can ask them politely to switch over to something else while your child is in a nearby section.
2 jeffson // Jul 23, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Here's the culprit: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
3 No porn in libraries // Jul 23, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Actually, viewing obscene material is not protected in the library. http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageID=about_pol...
But Seattle won't enforce their own policies. And while I think it's most important to protect kids from being exposed to porn, I actually think it's offensive to women and I don't want to see it, let alone have to politely ask the “perv” (because, come on who else would be doing this in a neighborhood library in the middle of the day for everyone to see) to switch to something else. Where is the common sense people?
4 bbb // Jul 23, 2009 at 6:48 pm
I think the policy page you should be looking at is actually <a href=”http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageID=about_policies_publicuseofinternet
“>here. At issue is the definition of “obscene” which really comes down to legality for SPL: if the image is legally viewable, it's viewable on SPL computers. I know for a fact that library workers aren't actually allowed to approach someone viewing porn on library terminals (how are they to decide where the fine obscenity line might be crossed?) so it's an unfortunate hazard.
Now, until Magnolia manages to open its own library–separate from the Seattle Public Library–you're asked to “not attempt to censor or comment upon what others are viewing.”
5 Jeff // Jul 23, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Polarized privacy shields on the screens will help.
6 No porn in libraries // Jul 23, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Viewing obscene material is not protected in the library: http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageID=about_pol....
Here's an article that gets it right, imho.
Sensible censorship: Surfing for porn shouldn't be a public library service
http://www.oregonlive.com/hovde/index.ssf/2009/...
7 Lee // Jul 23, 2009 at 8:20 pm
The library has privacy screens. You have to walk directly behind someones computer to see what they are looking at. You do realize that this woman is invading someone elses privacy by looking at their screen?
8 AMOYT // Jul 23, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Yes, and some localities are classifying it as “Contributing to the delinquency of a minor” as a way to forbid people from looking at porn without looking like censors.
I am in the middle of doing a series on my blog about the adult film industry,
check out http://amoyt.blogspot.com (AMOYT=A Moment Of Your Time)
9 rufus455 // Jul 23, 2009 at 8:41 pm
please, people alittle common sense is in order. Children should not be subjected to people watching porn in our librarys. If they want to watch porn their should be a porn section in the library where thye can do their thing, away from our kids.
10 mj // Jul 23, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Who decides what constitutes porn?
11 WtwoM // Jul 23, 2009 at 11:19 pm
gotta wonder what she saw that she felt was pron, but clearly didnt hit the librarian the same way? something gay? maybe gossip about the real housewives of someplace skanky?
12 Bobby // Jul 24, 2009 at 12:54 am
As you point out:
“it’s such a shame that we allow this to go on in magnolia.”
I agree, we should move the porn watchers to Ballard where they belong.
13 Darcy // Jul 24, 2009 at 7:50 am
Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder. A pedophile may be excited just by looking at photos of fully clothed children, should we make all images of children illegal so that they aren't encouraged?
The truth is, YOU were the one who was disturbed by it.
If we start censoring, we all suffer and lose our freedoms. Is Huck Finn next?
Keep Magnolia Free!
14 Magnolia Parent // Jul 24, 2009 at 9:20 am
I agree with Tina. This is absurd.
I plan to ask my fellow citizen in a non-library voice “Why are you looking at porn in the Library?” I expect this is exactly the kind of discussion he’s looking for.
Next step - snapping camera phone pictures of him… it's public space if he’s just exercising his rights, I’m excising mine, documenting his antisocial behavior.
15 bbb // Jul 24, 2009 at 10:31 am
I would again suggest looking at SPL's stated policies (http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageID=about_pol...) which clearly state: “All users are asked to respect the privacy of other users and not attempt to censor or comment upon what others are viewing. The Library's Rules of Conduct and pertinent state, federal and local laws apply to all Library users.”
Why, by not respecting their privacy, should you feel that you should respect it even less?
Say I was offended by the library's possession of bodice rippers and thought they should be removed (for the children). If I notice you're checking one out should I take a picture of you and circulate it? It's a matter of privacy. SPL asks that you respect others' as they should respect yours.
16 CharlesRedell // Jul 24, 2009 at 11:54 am
I'll just go ahead and second the comments that the person complaining is invading the privacy of the person at the computer. No one forced you to look at his screen, nor should you have been. In fact, I find your complaint about this offensive. It's a shame that we allow complaints like that in Magnolia.
17 Drew // Jul 24, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Magnolia Parent, why so aggressive?
If you want to engage someone who's watching porn in the library in conversation, just do it and find out what they have to say. “non-library voice”?? using a camera phone?? That's really rude, obnoxious behavior all because someone's using a library for something that you personally don't approve of.
For that matter, the last thing I want is for my children to be exposed to Fox News, but when I see a library patron reading their website on their screen, I just look the other way. It's the grown-up respectful thing to do.
18 rufus455 // Jul 24, 2009 at 2:39 pm
fox news,? Give me a break. comments here are so pc.
19 Freddie // Jul 24, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Surf and jerk….as American as apple pie and now in Magnolia. Honey, what do you think your husband does when he's in a hotel room with hi speed internet access on a 'business' trip?
20 Sondra // Jul 24, 2009 at 7:26 pm
Give me a break. Freddie took the words right out of my mouth. The only thing different is that her husband isn't doing it on a 'business' trip but rather in their own house once she's gone to sleep. Get over yourself Tina and mind your own business!!
21 kim1234 // Jul 24, 2009 at 8:14 pm
it's legal thanks to the 1st amendment. they also have magazines you can check out. i find it revolting but hey.
22 raec // Jul 24, 2009 at 10:16 pm
What kind of person would even want to look at porn in a public place? Sounds like they get a thrill out of other people watching them. Sorry, but I think it is very weird. Porn should be private.
23 hillobeans // Jul 26, 2009 at 8:48 pm
“Minding my own business and was assaulted by porn as i walked by the computer.” Assaulted by porn? According to my dictionary that would mean you where attack physically or verbally in a violent way. What happened was you saw something that you did not agree with and you feel like every one else should jump into action to insure that your little rose colored bubble remains intact. If you where “minding your own business you would not have been looking at that man’s screen and you could have gone on with your day in ignorant bliss. Next time, REALLY mind your own business. but if you have to go snooping at other peoples computer screen don’t be surprised or shocked at what you see. In other words don’t go looking for trouble and you want find it.
24 Manders83 // Jul 27, 2009 at 8:46 am
Even if the parent was invading this patron's privacy, kids don't understand that concept. If the patron can view this type of material in plain view of a child that my be standing close enough to see the screen- then a minor has the potential of being exposed to adult content material which seems inappropriate at a library. A public place shouldn't foster an atmosphere that makes it easy for the law to be broken (in this case a minor being exposed to adult content). It seems easy enough to have an adult-only section, they do that in video stores for this exact purpose.
25 CharlesRedell // Jul 27, 2009 at 9:21 am
That's close to a solution, but not really an acceptable one since it creates a second class of citizen IMO. By shuntng off folks who come to the library to look at “adult” material, they will be stigmatized by the community at large simply for being in that area of the library. That is not okay. What if the “adult” material they are looking at is anatomy research? It's got pictures of naked adults, but it's not porn is it? Should they be labeled because they have to sit in the adult section of the library?
The long and the short of it is: If you are concerned that your kid might see porn on someone's scree, keep them from having the opportunity to see it by keeping them away from computers where they might see it. this will take vigilance on the part of parents who will have to keep a close watch on their kids, but as a non-kid having adult, I would appreciate that. More often than not, I see and hear kids being allowed to run around the library freely as if it were a playground. As much as parents need some quiet time, the library is not the place to let your kids run free because they might get exposed to something you don't want them to see.
And if they do see something like that, instead of freaking out about it and trying to impose censorship by SPL, why not use it as a teaching moment and an opportunity to pass on your values to your kids. Answer their questions honestly. Explain that some people enjoy looking at certain types of pictures that you yourself find “dirty.”
26 Manders83 // Jul 27, 2009 at 10:21 am
I think you're right parents should be more vigilant about watching their kids but does this mean that the library is somewhere that parents have to always go to with their children? What about a 12 or 13 year old who is going to return or check out a book on their own? Who should be protected? The child, who isn't mature enough to process adult content or the adult who may feel bad if he/she is only allowed to look at the material in a restricted area?
Come on, its not about parents needing quiet time and pawning their kids off at the library- it is about what has already been legally determined unhealthy for kids while their mental faculties are still developing. I doubt a parent even one okay with someone watching porn at the library in front of their child could explain the nuances of sex/ porn/ pleasure etc. to a four-year old. It seems more reasonable to explain to patrons that due to the fact that chidren utilize the public library as well, adult-content is only offered in an adult-section.
Also, why should anyone feel like a second class citizen for looking at porn? If they are comfortable looking at it in a library I doubt the fact that it is in a “adult only” section would be shunning/ stigmatizing them in the larger community. It is pretty much the norm that adult-content is usually offered/ sold where kids don't have access (i.e.- video stores have a separate section or a separate video store altogether, you have to be a certain age to visit certain websites etc.)
27 Freddie // Jul 27, 2009 at 8:17 pm
“What about a 12 or 13 year old who is going to return or check out a book on their own”
If he's a boy, you can guarantee he's surfed and jerked already …..
28 Celia Bowker // Jul 28, 2009 at 9:51 am
How great that we have this neighborhood website to share our views. Thank you to the mom who was concerned and didn't keep it to herself, and everyone who commented. I found it really educational to read so many different ways of looking at the situation.
29 Freddie // Jul 28, 2009 at 2:23 pm
The problem is these folks think people who watch porn are 'weird and dangerous'.
Of course, you can GUARANTEE their husbands do it. Especially in Magnolia.
30 EvilPuppy // Jul 29, 2009 at 9:01 am
What's all this talk about library policy? If he was looking at porn, not Maxim but porn, in a place where children could see it then he was breaking the law. You have to be 18 to view porn and it is the responsibility of any adult viewing porn to make sure that minors cannot view it. There is no free speech issue here. On a related note, does this library really carry Juggs?
31 Lynn // Jul 29, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Sometimes a little Googleing before drawing conclusions goes a long way. Here's the legal decision that sets the foundation currently supporting all the voyers out there in public libraries:
http://www.techlawjournal.com/courts/loudon/811...
32 Lynn // Jul 29, 2009 at 12:15 pm
OOPS. Make that voyeurs. My bad.
33 i think i'll stay anonymous // Jul 31, 2009 at 12:24 pm
hi, i'm the mom who sent the original email and i just wanted to clarify… at the time i was very shook up by what i saw and i guess i wasn't “assaulted” (my bad) but i also wasn't snooping at someone's computer screen. all i was doing was walking from the non-fiction section down the aisle to the kids section and in my normal range of vision there is a computer screen (go take a look if you don't believe me) and on the screen was a close up of a woman's private parts. think super close up legs spread wide pelvic exam. i talked to the assistant to the city librarian who oversees our neighborhood library and she was going to take a look at that computer screen and hopefully swap it with one that doesn't have access to the internet so that other unsuspecting folks just walking by won't get an eyeful. i also talked to a lawyer friend who directed me to this: http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageID=about_pol...
but apparently porn isn't considered obscene because it's not illegal. anyway, happy to have other parents that agree with me that porn isn't appropriate at the magnolia library. oh, here is a good article that i so agree with: http://www.oregonlive.com/hovde/index.ssf/2009/...
34 i think i'll stay anonymous // Jul 31, 2009 at 2:24 pm
hi, i'm the mom who sent the original email and i just wanted to clarify… at the time i was very shook up by what i saw and i guess i wasn't “assaulted” (my bad) but i also wasn't snooping at someone's computer screen. all i was doing was walking from the non-fiction section down the aisle to the kids section and in my normal range of vision there is a computer screen (go take a look if you don't believe me) and on the screen was a close up of a woman's private parts. think super close up legs spread wide pelvic exam. i talked to the assistant to the city librarian who oversees our neighborhood library and she was going to take a look at that computer screen and hopefully swap it with one that doesn't have access to the internet so that other unsuspecting folks just walking by won't get an eyeful. i also talked to a lawyer friend who directed me to this: http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageID=about_pol...
but apparently porn isn't considered obscene because it's not illegal. anyway, happy to have other parents that agree with me that porn isn't appropriate at the magnolia library. oh, here is a good article that i so agree with: http://www.oregonlive.com/hovde/index.ssf/2009/...
35 aminasuchoski // Oct 22, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Hi there, Thanks for your note. Did you hear the conversation about this problem on the Bob Rivers Show earlier this week: http://www.bobrivers.com/#v10216c6
I think we should get organized around this issue and get the City to protect our children from seeing this material and being around those who view it. Please email me if you are interested in supporting such an effort. asuchoski@feareygroup.com
Cheers, Amina
36 aminasuchoski // Oct 22, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Hi there, Thanks for your note. Did you hear the conversation about this problem on the Bob Rivers Show earlier this week: http://www.bobrivers.com/#v10216c6
I think we should get organized around this issue and get the City to protect our children from seeing this material and being around those who view it. Please email me if you are interested in supporting such an effort. asuchoski@feareygroup.com
Cheers, Amina
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