Here's your opportunity to ask questions and share your experiences firsthand.

"Airplane Noise Have You Sleepless in Magnolia?"
Come hear King County and Port of Seattle representatives discuss Airport Noise and Safety relating to Magnolia

Magnolia Community Club General Meeting
November 12, 2009 at 7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Catherine Blaine School Cafeteria
(2550 34th Avenue West -- next to Magnolia Community Center)

If you cannot attend, please contact King County Noise Office for Boeing Field Traffic at:
Phone: 206-205-5242
E-mail: KCIAnoise@kingcounty.gov
Online form: your.kingcounty.gov/airport/noise_form.stm

For Sea-Tac:
http://www.portseattle.org/about/contact/noisec...

Hello Diana-

What was ever done as a result of this meeting? Today I sent an e-mail to the address listed above to file a complaint... the flights continue to disturb the peace at an unacceptable hour. Last night 3 flights at 4am, 4:20am, and 4:50am. Is there any legal action that can be taken to bring decorum back into the King County airport business decisions?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Tom Carl

Tom:

I'm not sure if you were able to attend the meeting, but reducing the flight noise and risk to residents by overhead flights, is very complicated since air traffic control is regulated by the FAA and changes to the air traffic control system does not happen quickly. The Magnolia News story can be found at: http://www.magnolianews.net/main.asp?Search=1&A....

The Magnolia Community Club will continue to monitor this issue, hold additional forums if there is interest, and push for changes when and where we can. We are encouraged by the fact that a senior FAA representive attended the meeting and heard from the community. Community input to the Port of Seattle and King County, such as your email, is one of the most important things we can collectively do.

Thank you for the reply Diana. Count me in if you need help and I will contiue to report any offensive air traffic, such as the 3, 4am flights I filed a complaint about the other day.

More LOUD and low flying aircraft this morning at 4:15, 5:10 and 5:20. Can anyone post an update from the last Magnolia Council meeting? Was aircraft noise addressed? Is there anything we can do to get some sleep?

an extremely loud and low flying airplane woke us up too. It was so low and noisey that my husband thought it was going to crash. we live in the rose hill area of kirkland.

FYI everybody. The Sea-Tac neighborhood is filing suit to claim property damages and damages resulting in loss of property value.

Hi Patty,

Susan White asked me to give you this information. I am president of Citizens Against Sea-Tac Expansion, C.A.S.E. helping our Representatives get as many affected people as possible to the meeting. The Justice Training Center auditorium comfortably seats 1,300, has great parking and not hard to find.

The Port of Seattle airport staff and the FAA are playing stall games passing the blame trying to save face for an absolutely blunderous waste of money on the third runway while thousands of people suffer in ever widening areas.

Please inform as many folks as you can about this meeting. Together, we can make things happen, pin the FAA and Port down and learn what to do. It may take Congressional changes of how the FAA defines and measures tolerable noise levels to human beings.
Clearly, they are clueless.

Hope to see you there,

Brett Fish
CASE

Follow-up Community Meeting on Airport Noise
Tuesday Evening
September 29th
7:00m to 9:00pm
WA State Criminal Justice Training Commission Auditorium: 19010—1st Ave S, Burien

I live near by an airport, i too face the problem.But i can't do anything since they can't shift their airport to some other place. :D

I live in the Central District near 12th & Yesler. Since June of this year I noticed we were suddenly right under the flight path mostly for south bound landing planes - not just commercial airliners but some kind of 2-prop silver, long, thin plane with a loud screech, seaplanes that fly E-W and Air Lift NW helicopters to and from Harborview. This makes for an ungodly brew of sound and it is all day long, landing flights every minute. I contacted the Squire Park Community Council and the Port Noise Abatement folks are coming to our 10/10/09 quarterly meeting at C.A.M.P. on 18th at 10 am to answer questions. I had a lot at first but I have more about noise mitigations than why this is happening. If you want to see what I have learned, see my Facebook group "Under the Flight Path" or e-mail me at seawabear@yahoo.com I am hopeful that all our communities can join together to force action on the following:
1. Have the noise monitoring effects, parameters, etc, transferred from the FAA to the EPA. This is an environmental issue so EPA is the rightful jurisdiction. Some other folks in the US are trying to do this. I have a link to this story.
2. Get the Port to enforce and monitor "noise budgets".
3. Have nighttime airport curfews with penalties for breaking these. Exceptions are for emergencies, of course. In 2000, a Port of Seattle Noise Mediation Team finished working on noise issues - see "Noise Mediation Team Wraps Up 10 Years of Accomplishment")
4. Advocate for immediate quieter airplane technology and incentives at airports for airlines using these.
5. Monitoring adherence to flight paths by pilots/airlines.
6. Ground noise - restrictions on where aircraft can "run up" engines for ground testing and limitations on nighttime runups)
7. Aircraft Monitoring Procedure - a procedure pilots must follow when departing Sea-Tac to help aircraft generate less noise. Does this also apply to landings?
There are many more mitigations we could be joining together for to achieve relief from this hideous airplane noise that isn't solved by shifting it from one neighborhood to another.

To those who think people who are concerned about airplane noise, that this is the city, get used to it, I say, city noise is random for the most part and there are ordinances against noise in the city. No such ordinances exist or are enforced in the city about airplane noise. Airplane noise is the second largest (after roadway noise) source of environmental noise.

I have a Facebook group, "Under the Flight Path" with lots of great links. I am interested in connecting with people and groups who want to advocate for wide long-term solutions to hold the airlines, pilots, the Port, the FAA and all others responsible, accountable, now!

The Magnolia Community Club has a committee working on air traffic issues. We are requesting that a new member from Magnolia be appointed to the King County “Roundtable” for Boeing Field issues. We’ve also been communicating with Boeing Field representatives. It appears that the real issue is air traffic control over Magnolia, which is controlled by the FAA. Thus, we are also working on lobbying the FAA for resolution. Anyone interested in this issue is invited to contact Diana Dearmin at ddearmin@seanet.com and to join the MCC ($10/household/year) at our website www.eyeonmagnolia.web.officelive.com.

Appreciate if someone from Mag Community Club (MCC) would comment on their efforts to notify the county of our neighborhoods noise concerns and to let us know what we can do to help.

We too live by the water tower and have noticed an increase in noise levels by overhead airport for a few months now. We've been here 5 yrs now and I have often been woken up early AM (4 or 5am) by planes flying loudly overhead on their approach to Boeing. This used to be mainly during the winter months and/or when it was especially overcast, but lately it seems worse then ever, even on sunny days and even during the day. If I am in the backyard on the phone during the day, the plane noise will drown out the call, so much so that the person will ask - "what is that noise?" or "I did not know you lived by the airport" !

We moved here from the top of 28th and the noise here is certainly worse than what we heard on the other Magnolia hill. So I can see what some Magnolia residents think it's not a big deal but if you live where we do, it really is a big deal!

Back when SW airlines tried to move operations to Boeing Field, I actively joined the group fighting the move because I was very worried about the increase in air traffic, it's subsequent noise and it's longterm impact on our home value.

Now that the SW situation is history, it seems that our community needs to come together and see what we can do to reduce the noise like Ruffner mentions.

I fly a great deal for business so I am not against air travel but would like to see reasonable actions taken to lessen the impact on our quality of life. I fly alot in/out of Orange County airport (SNA) where they have significant noise abatement policies in affect - no take offs before a certain time in the morning or landings after X time at night and the ascent on take off is very different that other airports, so much so pilots oftern describe it before take off so passengers are not frightened.

Great comments, Ruffner! Does anyone know how we can get noise monitors set up around Magnolia?

I've lived in all different Seattle neighborhoods (as well as near LAX airport for 2 years) and the airline noise here in Magnolia is worse than any other area I've lived in. I live near the water tower and I think this area probably suffers the most which may explain why some people view this as a bigger problem than others do.

To "keyboard kitty" and others who say that we should just accept the noise as an intrinsic and unavoidable aspect of living in the city: my take is that you're right about this... but up to a point.

Some city noise is unavoidable (busses trundling by at 6 in the morning, garbage trucks, the noise - some of it! - from the trains, etc), and some is not.

It seems that a lot of this early AM airplane noise is avoidable.

If this is the case - if it's a case of just habit or other bureaucratic inertia or nonsense, as is implied by "Ruffner" (thanks for taking the time to post your very informative post, BTW) - then there's no reason to tolerate it.

Why does the state spend millions of dollars on noise abatement for highways? Sure, there are probably more people living along I-5 than are woken up in the wee hours in Magnolia by cargo jets, but here, the costs to change those habits would seem to be trivial.

During the day, I love seeing the early evening rush of cargo jets - they're huge and it's fun to watch for the landing gear. But in the AM... there's not as much to see, so I'd rather sleep through it :)

I will reply to a few posts here. Not all the traffic is always for Boeing field.
Also Boeing Field has been trying for years to get new technology that recently made news for Seatac - Alaska airlines.

I actually wrote to the County in July about this issue. Our email exchange appears below. This issue concerns safety, not just noise. As you may recall, in recent years, fortunately not here, jets have crashed into residential neighborhoods.

Dear Ms. Dearmin:

Thank you for contacting me today about increased aircraft noise—possibly from King County International Airport (KCIA) at Boeing Field. While KCIA’s Instrument Landing System is located on Magnolia, this precision navigational system has not experienced increased flight activity recently.

In fact, operations at KCIA are actually below 2008 levels. Enclosed is a breakdown of annual KCIA operations and complaints by year. As of June 2009, KCIA experienced a reduction of 10,856 operations, or 7.5%, over 2008 levels, which totaled 145,174 in June 2008.

In addition, it is not uncommon this time of year for residents to have windows open more given our better-than-average spring and summer weather. Good weather and being outside also prompts people to notice noise events as well.

In the event you would like to contact Sea-Tac Airport about any operational changes that would increase noise levels, their Noise Information Line number is 206-433-5393.

Should you have any questions, please contact me at 206-205-5242.

Sharyn Parker, Noise Officer
King County International Airport (KCIA)
7277 Perimeter Road South
Seattle, WA 98108-3844
________________________________________
From: Diana Dearmin [mailto:ddearmin@dearminfogarty.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:06 PM
To: Parker, Sharyn
Subject: Air Noise Over Magnolia

Dear Ms. Parker-

We have lived in Magnolia for over 10 years and in the recent months it seems that we have had an increase in flights/air noise directly over our neighborhood. It is unclear whether this is due to an increase in air traffic from the King County Airport or SeaTac or both. As you can imagine, this is not a welcome change. We encourage the County to take whatever action it can to reduce air traffic and noise over this residential community.

Sincerely,

Diana M. Dearmin

Given the comments it sounds like everyone needs to contact Boeing Field and UPS about the offending UPS flight. I suspect that there have been changes beyond this one flight, which has been an issue for quite awhile. off the Boeing Field website:

Noise Office
Phone: 206-205-5242
E-mail: KCIAnoise@kingcounty.gov
Online form: your.kingcounty.gov/airport/noise_form.stm

UPS World Headquarters
55 Glenlake Parkway NE
Atlanta , GA 30328
United States
Tel.: 1-800-PICK-UPS

My understanding is that the MCC has been following and is interested in the safety and noise issues caused by overhead flights. Community interest and backing would help this volunteer organization's efforts to push for viable changes. Calling or emailing Boeing Field is one area where you can make a difference. You took the time to comment here, so do it now!

I love the noise, as it reminds me of old times living a few miles from the centerline of 14R at O'Hare. Honestly folks, living in major urban areas gives you the pleasure of major airports close by. If you aren't willing to share your space with infrastructure, please feel free to depart. The same arguments go to those who live directly adjacent to the airport and complain about the noise. The planes have been there for quite a while and they're not going elsewhere. They serve the community and you should learn to tolerate it and might as well take some nice high resolution photographs. Perhaps you too can learn to tell the difference between a DC-10 and MD-11 from a distance.

I believe the far east side has space, hope you don't mind the gunfire and conservatives.

I am a commercial airline pilot and Magnolia resident, and I thought I could add some basic facts to the discussion.
Most jet aircraft landing at Boeing Field (BFI) to the Southeast will use the ILS13R instrument approach procedure. (Here is a link to a web page that has a visual depiction of all the approaches into BFI: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBFI Click on the link next to: ILS RWY 13R to view this approach) This approach allows aircraft to descend to 2200 FT above sea level as they transit Magnolia. Aircraft are often in level flight preparing for descent at this point. This means that they will typically be at a high power setting and in an aerodynamically "dirty" configuration as they overhead Magnolia. This is typically the noisiest part of the approach. The aircraft will typically start their final descent over the fix 6.4 nautical miles from the end of the runway. The name of this fix is "NOLLA" after our neighborhood. There is a radio beacon on the ground below this fix. It is near the top of the Magnolia bridge just south of the road near the new pocket park. The radio frequency is 362 mHz. You can hear it on your AM radio as you drive by if you dial your radio down to the extreme low end of the AM dial. As the aircraft begin their descent, they will reduce their power setting. Unfortunately, this approach was designed so that the final approach segment (the downhill part) is at the south end of the neighborhood. This means that arrival aircraft may transit our neighborhood low to the ground, in level flight, and at a high power setting. If the final approach segment began over the radar antenna in Discovery Park (an FAA owned facility), the aircraft would have to be at a higher altitude, and descending as they crossed Magnolia. Instrument approaches to runways are designed according to specific criteria set forth in part 97 of the Federal Aviation Regulations (CFR 14). These rules will govern how far from the airport the final approach segment may begin, and at what angle the aircraft must descend. The ILS 13R at BFI depicts a descent (glide path) angle of 3.00 degrees. This is the standard. However, many glide path angles exceed this, meaning they provide a steeper descent to the runway. A steeper glide path angle, and a longer final approach segment would mean less noise for our neighborhood.

You may have noticed if you went to the the airnav website (http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBFI ) that there is an instrument approach and a visual approach that take aircraft out over Elliott Bay on their arrival. These approaches are the: RNAV (GPS) Y RWY 13R and the HARBOR VISUAL RWY 13R. These approaches have been designed and approved by the FAA, but they don't seem to be used. I see this often throughout the country--that more advanced approaches are available, but not used. The fact is that an ILS is the old standby. My view is that the industry is slow to change, and that air traffic controllers have been issuing clearances for ILS approaches for half a century and they are comfortable doing it this way and will continue to unless there is a compelling reason to change their habits. My advice would be to make sure the Seattle air traffic controllers and the airlines that use BFI see a compelling reason to quite their footprint over Magnolia.
If the MCC and other community leaders in Magnolia are not sure how to go about this, I would suggest following the example set by the communities surrounding the Orange County airport in Southern California. These communities have effectively muzzled the airlines operating into this airport making them jump through numerous hoops to minimize their noise footprint. The area is surrounded by noise monitors, and any aircraft that violates a certain noise threshold is fined. Magnolia residents could be just as effective if they organized around a common goal.

let's get organized! just say when/where and i'm there. thank you!!!!

What about the alternative to have the planes avoid Magnolia altogether, turning in over Elliott Bay?

That is what he is talking about. You have to convince the FAA and air traffic controllers to give that clearance. They will only do it if the neighborhood makes enough noise about it.

do you post on APC?

Wow! I thought it was just me! YES, it's gotten much louder especially the last few months. Thanks for the link.

Most of the time the airplanes noise doesn't bother me. However, there have been a few times where (like others have mentioned) I really thought they were going to crash into my house or nearby. I was just waiting to hear the loud crash.

Why does Boeing Field exist? It is King County property. Boeing has Paine Field and Renton, they do little work (I believe) at "Boeing Field." Boeing Field is used mostly for shipper and private/corporate jet traffic. Why can't this be moved to SeaTac? Let Boeing Field become a park or low income housing...

Hi WVWW,
It appears you need to talk to a few more people who work at Boeing & use Boeing Field, or know more about Boeing field.

#1 - Every 737 produced at Renton has to fly to Boeing field for delivery and other work needed. Note Boeing is putting out 1 737 everyday.

#2 - Boeing has all flight testing, numerous laboratories, military delivery center and the DC (Developmental Center) and plants at Boeing field. Thousands of well paying middle class jobs at just Boeing depend on use of the airport. If airport goes away so do the jobs.

#3 Boeing field is used as a very good secondary field for SeaTac when it is closed , or weather is bad there, or heaven forbid if a major accident at Seatac closed a runway or two. Also when VIP's like president flys in, like last time Bush was hear, Secret service can secure Boeing field with our closing down SeaTac if a president flew in there.

#4 You do have a few small commercial flights using Boeing field, go visit terminal on east side of airport. See where they fly.

#5 Also those corperate private aircraft at Boeing field especially the general aviation folks can't use Seatac. SeaTac doesn't want the smaller airplane traffic.

#6 look at all the other businesses at Boeing Field, air plane repair, services, etc. They can't move to SeaTac...again many more jobs you would lose.

#7 Boeing field is much better airport than Renton and nice long runway, very important for a flight if it gets diverted or has problems.

#8 maybe we should have some of the low income housing put in magnolia, it is a lovely area. And you have a wonderfull park once you get the cougar out of it.

Airplaneguy,

I never intended to come across as an expert on how Boeing field is used by Boeing and that's why I put "I believe" in there. I knew the part about customer deliveries occurring there and that's why I put "little work" in there. Good to have you speak up and share your knowledge.

Responding to your points...

#1 - OK, but is Boeing Field really the only place this can be done? Hard to believe. Maybe you can explain the "other work" more.

#2 - Again, can't this be moved to Paine/Renton and the employees transferred as well? I understand non-Boeing employees may be affected.

#3 - I doubt Boeing field is often used as a secondary field, especially now that SeaTac has three (count 'em!) runways. I'm sure Air Force 1 could fly into SeaTac without much disruption just as it does for other major cities. Also, Paine Field would be a great option if the Secret Service did not like SeaTac.

#4 - Again, SeaTac.

#5 - SeaTac doesn't want the smaller traffic? I'm not sure that's true, it's revenue for them. Even if it is true, again, Renton or Paine... We have so many airfields available around here, I think we could lose one without a problem (and I obviously vote Boeing Field).

#6 - But maybe those could move to Paine or Renton...

#7 - See #3. All kinds of major cities do without a good secondary close to the flightpath of the primary field. I just don't agree this issue is of such concern to drive a need for Boeing Field.

#8 - This is happening--the city is turning over part of Discovery Park for low income housing!

I'm not an airline pilot, but I do fly in small planes (i.e., general aviation) frequently with friends and family, though no one I know has enough money to keep a plane at Boeing Field. I grew up here and have spent decades watching Boeing (the company) and Boeing Field (the airport). I'm not a usual commenter on sites like this, though I love what MagnoliaVoice has brought to our community. The concept of shutting down Boeing Field is so off base to me, that I feel compelled to respond.

#1 Renton's runway is too short to conduct delivery and test flight operations. Paine is too far away from the established manufacturing line in Renton. Boeing is a critical part of the local economy. Shutting down Boeing Field is like shooting the goose that laid the golden egg.

#2 No as to Boeing, and as to the goose analogy there are far more than just a couple additional businesses that link to Boeing.

#3 The third runway at SeaTac is explicitly designated to help in poor weather so it may in fact reduce the rare secondary flights from SeaTac to Boeing. As to politicians, Paine Field is a h@llish drive back to Seattle for the bigwig secret service protected politicians, and far larger and harder to protect that Boeing Field. The region -- and everybody who lives in Magnolia, but might have to drive elsewhere for work, school, kids, family, etc. -- is far better off with flights to Boeing Field and rolling closures of a few miles of I-5 into Seattle or Bellevue to accommodate a motorcade versus closures all the way from Paine Field.

#4 The whole point of the few commercial services who use Boeing is to reduce the traveler hassle associated with SeaTac. Sure, they could fly out of SeaTac, but that's not their business model. And those providers aren't creating the current noise complaints.

#5 No way does SeaTac want to be bothered with general aviation traffic. SeaTac imposes ridiculous landing fees to force rational pilots of small planes to land elsewhere. SeaTac is a commercial airport. Boeing isn't - it's a general aviation airport. And having a "world class" city means having both. LAX (vs. Orange County), San Fran (vs. Palo Alto) - I don't have an exhaustive list, it's not what I do, but every major City has a smaller business jet and general aviation airport as a companion to its international airport.

#6 No. See No. 5. The City -- and Magnolia -- needs Boeing Field.

#7 This is not a situation of planning today for the future location of Boeing Field. It is where it is. And there isn't anywhere else it could be moved and still be in Western Washington.

#8 Homeless housing isn't really part of this topic, but, yes, there is a plan for some in Discovery Park, plus a lot of other places across Seattle and King County.

With all that said, the facts seem to be that Boeing Field flight operations have been modified sometime over the last 6 months, increasing noise to Magnolia, which is especially noticeable with the early morning cargo flights. The community, and the Magnolia Community Club, absolutely should be lobbying King County (they run Boeing Field), the early morning cargo operators (e.g., UPS), and the FAA to revert to the prior system that wasn't as loud while all parties continue to work towards an Elliott Bay approach which would be quieter still.

One of the reasons my husband moved here was because of the airplanes. :)

I have lived in Ballard for 6 years. Sleep with the windows open. Can't ever remember being woken up in the early morning by a frighteningly loud, low flying aircraft until this summer, and it has happened several times.

yeah I've been noticing more loud low places over Ballard as well

The noise problem over Magnolia has increased steadily for more than a decade and continues to grow. As a point of interest we have a new approach designed and ready for final qualification (called the LDA) that puts these aircraft over Elliott Bay but unfortunately Ron Sims sided with the airplane operators and airport by stopping its implementation. Larry Phillips, our King County Councilman, has worked very hard on this and still feels we have a chance of succeeding if there is enough community outrage. The Magnolia Community Club (MCC) is also stepping up its interest and is definitely worth connecting with.
The overwater approach, currently the only viable solution for Magnolia and surrounding communities, has been attacked by the airport and the airplane operators for the most ridiculous reasons even though it has passed every FAA test with flying colors. They don't like it because it would require a 7 degree course adjustment before landing as opposed to the straight-in over our neighborhood.
There is a lot more on this subject. If enough people show their interest to the MCC that will give the Club the resources and support to make a stronger political showing.
Dan Labriola

NOT IN MY BACKYARD!

I live in N. Ballard and twice in the past few weeks I heard a very loud plane in the early evening and both times it was a UPS jet! After reading the other posts I am wondering why the UPS jet is so loud and the others that take the same path are not. It seems like this is worth looking into further because maybe the pilot is doing something different (unintentionally) that causes the noise or there's something about the UPS jets causing it.

In the past year or so, I think the air traffic noise has gotten out of control in Magnolia! I'm glad to hear someone else mention it, because I haven't been sure if I'm just more sensitive to it lately. It's soo loud, and they fly so low!!

The early morning planes you're hearing are the UPS/FedEx/DHL flights coming in. I can't say I've necessarily noticed them getting louder/quieter.

There was an article in the "Magnolia News" back in October of 2002 I think discussing how Norm Maleng and another prominent local (forget the name) had finally convinced the powers that be at Boeing Airfield (or more appropriately King County Municipal since it is owned by the county) to use modern navigation technology which would allow planes to circle in over Elliot Bay instead of lining up "way out" and fly directly over Magnolia (using the radar beacon in Discover Park as a waypoint).

Then nothing ever happened. Dunno why for sure, I always suspected Ron Sims killed it since he (a democrat) didn't care for Norm's (republican) idea.

talk to FAA and your elected leaders at a federal level.

We have lived in Magnolia for 10 years, and I always thought the complaints about the air traffic noise was silly. But in the last 6 months to a year, it has gotten significantly worse. It honestly sounds as though the plane will crash into the house. Thanks for the link to the noise reporting form.

We have lived in Magnolia for 10 years, and I always thought the complaints about the air traffic noise was silly. But in the last 6 months to a year, it has gotten significantly worse. It honestly sounds as though the plane will crash into the house. Thanks for the link to the noise reporting form.

We live 20 miles away from a major airport...

You want to get away from boats, trains and airplanes? Try Eastern Washington. Or 1828.

We know we live in a city, the point of this conversation is that there has been a sudden and significant change in the flight path of commercial air craft in the area and we'd like to know more about it.

I was just thinking the same thing the other night.

It used to be that I would only hear the planes on days that were very overcast, which I understand would probably require that they fly lower, but this summer, which has not been very overcast at all, I've been hearing the planes regularly and all throughout the day and night.

It has been insane lately. IT starts around 4:30 AM for a few hours. Also right around dinnertime. It scares our cats and dog, wakes us up, and when it happens during the day, drowns out conversation and ends sanity.
Anne

We really need to put Magnolia in a giant cone of isolation.

No loud cruise ships.
No airplanes.
No cougars.
And best of all we can keep the poor rift-raft out of our neighborhood (and thus away from the iPods in our glove box)

It just make sense.

Geesh Faux Real,

You sure have been posting a lot of negative comments lately. Lighten up.

Maybe you should lighten up, I think FR was joking..

This is not a concern about a one time thing. I used to live in Alexandria, VA, right near the southern flight path for National Airport. It never started this early, and was rarely this loud. The current situation is something I would feel obligated to tell anyone buying my house about, it is that much of a nuisance.


Now we live on 36th W across from the park, and hear normal plane noise, often, that is fine. And the cruise ship stuff is fine- kinda fun actually. But this is every day and night, at unreasonable hours. I haven't been able to get a straight answer from anyone other than that is likely UPS/FEDEX type cargo flights.

I like sleep. I do not like rattling windows. Is it not enough that we have bears and mountain lions running amok around here? As soon as the tiger shows up, I am afraid we all have to start singing.

Over by the water tower I heard the loud plane too - it sounded like an older "stage one" jet without "hush kit" engines, or else a military aircraft. It also sounded as if it was having issues with its glide path - like it was lower than it should have been (it seemed to be very low) because it suddenly applied full power. It would be interesting to know if that was an air freight jet, or an AWACS - and just what was going on.

The Seattle Sounders charter came in to Boeing Field at around 2 a.m. according to an e-mail I got (inviting me down to welcome the team home), but sleep seemed like a better option and I never heard it.

I heard the same airplane this morning. How annoying! Felt like it flew directly over my house!

A quick persual of the Flight Tracker suggests the most likely offender would be UPS flight 982:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS982

and yes, I too have noticed it more lately, but possibly just because it's cool enough that I don't need to leave the window fan on at night.

Usually its the Hawaii 767s and the FDX DC10's that I think generate the most noise.

Don't know of Hawaii 767 flights your talking about. Any planes going to Hawaii would be in and out of SeaTac airport not Boeing field.

I live over in the Magnuson Park area and I haven't noticed an increase in air traffic but they all seem to flying much, much lower.

Every single one of you are cry babies. This is how I picture you. Your in bed with your significant other who won't give in to making you the " little spoon". So, you throw a hissy fit, sleeping on your stomach with half your body hanging off your side of the bed. You realize how childish you are which reminds you of your stupid kid who gives you as much respect as a parasite. Inside you are boiling, You hear a Passenger plane over head, your thoughts are " Fu**'nnnn Plaaaaane" When you know god damn well you a the retard. You get out of bed " GOD DAMMIT!!! I will not Live here!" your wife is asking you to calm down but you have a point you must make " I will not live here! I did not move to Magnolia to have PLANESS AHHHH, I didn't buy my little Porsche SUV, I didn't sign by little fu***ng brat in an over priced tee-ball league, or buy my coffee's at the Serendipity, to hear the ROOOAR of Passenger PLANESS ! WHY ME!! WHY ME!! IS THERE A GOD? !!!"

I live in heart of Magnolia and I love planes ( I can't wait to get that shirt).

Phillip