The Magnolia Community Club (MCC) is asking the city to allow carpools and taxis to use the BAT lanes along 15th Ave West. In a letter to the Department of Transportation, MCC says that the BAT lanes do not accomplish their primary purpose, pointing out that due to budget shortfalls, the implementation of Rapid Ride bus service is now uncertain.
Because the BAT lanes were implemented prematurely in terms of aiding Rapid Ride and traffic congestion continues to be an ongoing problem along the corridor, especially during the morning and evening commute, we propose a modified HOV lane so that all lanes are used to capacity. Converting the BAT lanes to HOV lanes will give SDOT the opportunity to correct the still confusing signage along the Corridor and to notify drivers that taxis and carpools are allowed in those lanes.
MCC points out the increased cruise ship traffic at Pier 91 further supports converting to HOV lanes. MCC wants a meeting of representatives of SDOT, Queen Anne Community Council, Ballard Community Council, the Port of Seattle and Seattle Police Department to discuss this issue.
CAC has previously aired concerns relating to improving the merge off the Magnolia Bridge in front of Staples, widening West Mercer Way to two eastbound lanes, and improving signal timing.
32 responses so far ↓
1 Hmmf // Dec 4, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Buses only 7-9 am: I understand this. No parking and buses only between these hours. Does this mean that it's okay to drive in the lane after 9? Except Sat Sun Holiday: Does this mean you can park in the lane on these days or drive between 7 and 9 on these days? Some of the signs say buses only until 6. So, can I drive in it after 6? If it is allowed, how come nobody is using it when the other two lanes are creeping along. Have you ever tried to turn right on 15th when the traffic is heavy? You can't. Can I drive in the restricted lane and merge over? Apparently not because drivers are already pissed off from waiting in traffic, they're not about to let me in. I've asked a lot of people and everyone has a different answer.
2 name5 // Dec 5, 2009 at 8:34 am
I'm OLD, and I don't understand!
3 magmom1 // Dec 5, 2009 at 9:16 am
Everyone is confused because the signage is contradictory. The large sign pictured above indicates that there are no restrictions on the lane outside of the posted hours: anyone can use them. The other smaller signs indicate you can only use the right lane if you turn right at the next intersection, and there are no hours associated with that rule. I think people don't use the lane to avoid getting a ticket from not adhering to the second sign.
They need only one set of signs or the other. Take out the large ones if the restriction is 24 hours, take out the small ones if the restrictions are only for the rush hour.
After all the meetings and complaints about this, I can't believe they still haven't straightened out the signage!
4 Magnolia Commuter // Dec 5, 2009 at 9:44 am
It's the MCC (Magnolia Community Club) - can the MV folks correct that? I've been to a bunch of these meetings, because I really despise the BAT lanes.
All the prior comments are right on and issues that MCC has been fighting since the first day the surprise signs went up.
The signage is confusing - but the City Transportation Dept doesn't think so! They say the same signage works just fine on 2nd Ave downtown - but of course people are parked in those lanes from 9 a.m. 6 p.m., so it's not feasible to drive in the lane.
Ages ago, the SPD told MCC and MCC worked to get the word out that the police would not ticket drivers driving in the lanes outside the posted hours. Not sure if SPD still feels that way, but when the mainline traffic is backed up and that third lane is empty, I admit I use it. Hope I don't get a ticket.
As to the turning right on 15th/Elliott from the base of the Magnolia Bridge, in response to MCC's pointing out the safety problems, SDOT extended that legal merge all the way to the dog day care (can't remember the name of the supposed intersection - maybe Lee Street?) — there is yet more signage that explains it plus an angled line painted across the stupid BAT lane there. Please use that merge distance - it's much safer to do that than to risk collisions at the base of the bridge.
Everybody should also know about another change MCC got early on was the allowance for traffic turning onto the Magnolia Bridge to use the BAT lane northbound all the way from Mercer Place to the Bridge. Again - yet more signs explain it, but I don't think everybody knows about it.
Finally, while the it would be great from my personal perspective for the silly BAT lanes to just disappear, I want to commend MCC for trying to represent the views of the community as a whole, which includes both drivers and bus riders. As I've heard at some of the meetings, the bus riders do think their commute has improved due to the lanes.
5 name5 // Dec 5, 2009 at 10:33 am
Seriously, it's not that confusing. Every Monday through Friday from 7AM-9AM , you CANNOT drive in this lane UNLESS you are in a bus, on a bicycle, or immediately turning right. You can disregard the sign completely on holidays.
Is it just a coincidence that the same people who want this lane to disappear are the same ones who claim to not understand it?
Also, how would you reword it to make it understandable at 35-45MPH? It's not going anywhere so constructive suggestions are welcome.
6 VC // Dec 5, 2009 at 11:23 am
These statements contradict your understanding of the signs:
“The right-turn-only signs at intersections apply at all times, says Bill Bryant of Seattle's Department of Transportation. The time-restriction signs, such as 7 a.m.-9 a.m., refer to the hours during which parking is not allowed, and buses and right-turning vehicles have exclusive use of the curb lane. But parking is allowed at other times.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/bumpertob...
“The restriction reserving the lane for buses and vehicles making the next right turn applies at all times.”
http://www.seattlepi.com/transportation/369784_...
7 name5 // Dec 5, 2009 at 11:30 am
Your statement above contradicts the actual reading of the sign pictured. Scroll up to see it - “Right turns permitted,” not “Right turns only.”
If it said “Right turns only,” you would be correct. This is why they changed the language.
How would you change the wording?
8 kim // Dec 5, 2009 at 5:26 pm
magnolians don't care. they drive in the lanes anyway because they own them sillies! they're using an organizations name to carry weight to revised it so it will be legal again.
9 mag98199 // Dec 5, 2009 at 10:54 pm
The sign pictured (probably mid-block) says “Right turns permitted” meaning that you MAY use the lane when turning. Immediately before each intersection there's a sign that says “Right turn only.” Except northbound north of Mercer Place, nearly every intersection is a “Right turn only” at all times.
10 15thcyclist // Dec 7, 2009 at 6:17 am
With the development along that corridor (Whole foods, Martin Selig property) needing the lane for right turns/merging, will a mile or so of HOV really make that much of a difference?
I bike 15th in the morning; many of the folks merging from Magnolia continue left across 15th and go up Mercer, presumably headed for the freeway.
11 ballardmike // Dec 7, 2009 at 10:25 am
That lane should be open to Motorcycles/Scooters as well!
12 snoopy // Dec 7, 2009 at 12:35 pm
I would guess that maybe 1-2% of the cars in the morning/evening commute have more than one occupant. Allowing those few cars into the BAT lane is not going to change anything. This is really a waste of taxpayers money to have to put up with the little battle that magnolia is waging.
What would really help me is to NOT allow the bikes in the BAT lane. The buses cant get around them and have to merge into the backed up traffic to pass. Of course I dont live in magnolia so my voice is not really heard….
13 CharlesRedell // Dec 7, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Funny. When I took the #33 bus this morning from Magnolia to downtown, those lanes seemed to be accomplishing their primary purpose just fine. My bus and all those of us on it who choose not to drive sped right past all that traffic mostly made up of single-occupancy vehicles.
Maybe try getting out of your car and onto the bus before you claim to need that extra lane. And before people yell at me about “needing” a vehicle, I know some people do need a vehicle for work or to make it to appointments from time to time but the problem on 15th (and all our roads) is the mass majority of people driving in their own cars, or at most, with one other person. Take the bus or ride your bike as much as possible and you'll see traffic diminish AND you'll get to work faster.
14 ballardpilot // Dec 7, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Not going to happen.
Come on. Haven't you guys figured out that the city's primary goal in every policy decision is to do everything they can to make your life as miserable as possible for anyone who dares to — gasp! — drive a car?
15 stopthebuzz // Dec 7, 2009 at 12:48 pm
I don't have a problem with this, as you're certainly not going to try to employ alternate means of transportation on your own.
16 nwcitizen // Dec 7, 2009 at 1:13 pm
I am in favor of encouraging alternative modes of transportation other than the SOV. So, if it doesn't significantly affect bus travel times, I'd be in favor of allowing car pools and scooters/motorcycles in addition to buses and bikes in the BAT lanes during peak hours.
I agree that bikes are problematic because of the speed differential but, until there is adequate infrastructure to allow bikes to travel separate from motorized traffic, I wouldn't want to change from the existing rules.
17 Magnolia Commuter // Dec 7, 2009 at 4:58 pm
In response to nwcitizen, there is a bike path that parallels the BAT lanes. It goes across the Port property and connects to the trail along Elliott Bay through Myrtle Edwards Park. A cyclist coming south from Ballard could either come across the Locks into Magnolia, or could turn off 15th at Emerson or Dravus into Magnolia and get access the bike trail off Thorndyke. Having taken that route, it's not perfect, but it is adequate and beats competing with traffic.
18 onerainking // Dec 7, 2009 at 4:59 pm
I am IN FAVOR of lessening the confusion regarding these lanes, and making them HOV lanes in addition to BUS Lanes.
The purpose of ALL LANES should be to move ALL TRAFFIC as efficiently and efforlessly as possible, while encouraging use of non-single vehicals (be it: Busses, Carpools, Vanpools, etc….)
When you block off access to lanes you defeat this purpose.
These “BUS ONLY” lanes should be Bus and HOV lanes during commute times, and normal all-traffic lanes during other times (mostly 7pm-7am).
I would also go so far as to say no parking should be allowed on 15th Ave W/Elliot Ave W to encourage 3 full lanes of traffic at all hours of the day/night.
19 itsthegovernment // Dec 7, 2009 at 11:43 pm
The “city” doesn't have policies. The elected officials do. And Seattle just elected the most pro bike and transit Mayor ever.
Sorry car people.
20 itsthegovernment // Dec 7, 2009 at 11:47 pm
Ideal scenario around the city to help move traffic would be to eliminate all storing of personal property( cars) on public property( streets.)
How we ever got where people could abandon their vehicle on the street is crazy anyway.
21 Andy // Dec 8, 2009 at 5:05 pm
That bike path is Port property and is subject to random closure to accomodate rail traffic, and is regularly closed between 7pm and 6am in the summer (9pm and 6am in the summer). It's also not lighted at all, which makes it dangerous at night. Also, trying to get back on 15th when heading back towards Ballard can be a real hassle, as Dravus & 15th is a mess. So 15th is often the best, if not the only, way to get through Interbay on a bike. (Which is why I usually avoid it and take Dexter/Westlake to get Downtown from Ballard.)
22 Andy // Dec 8, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Sorry, that should say 7pm in the winter.
23 Newsie // Dec 8, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Great! Those Magnolians who can afford to drive to and park at work now want to take away the biggest advantage of those who ride the bus - an on-time commute.
If you really want to ease congestion for everyone - not just yourself, take the bus. More transit will come as soon as there is demand. Change comes from within.
24 BillyBilly // Dec 9, 2009 at 11:09 am
Nice condescending response. Here's an idea - do what works for you, but don't tell me what to do. I take the bus when I can, but to get my son to his school in the morning would take 2 transfers and nearly an hour, vs. 20 minutes in the car.
SPD sent a letter to the MCC last year clarifying these lanes are “normal traffic lanes” during off-peak hours (though the signs remain ambiguous). How does that, or opening the lane to HOVs during commute hours, hamper your bus commute, sir?
25 BillyBilly // Dec 9, 2009 at 11:12 am
Here's the link to SPD's clarification that the lane can be used by “all vehicles” as a “normal traffic lane” outside posted hours:
http://www.magnoliavoice.com/2009/04/10/bat-lan...
26 BillyBilly // Dec 9, 2009 at 11:14 am
See http://www.magnoliavoice.com/2009/04/10/bat-lan...
27 CharlesRedell // Dec 9, 2009 at 11:18 am
When you say what works for you, do you mean what's easier and more convenient? Because if we all do that, then we're in a world of hurt. More so than we are now, because people are selfish.
In short, in a time of massive budget cuts, rising fuel prices and drastic climate change, driving more often than not is a choice that affects us all. So calling on people to take the bus instead of driving, even if it takes 40 extra minutes, is something I will continue to do. Apologies if I sounded condescending though. You're right that that is uncalled for.
To answer your question, opening the lane to HOVs doesn't hamper my commute… but the definition of HOVs in most of this state (2+ in a car) is so loose as to be pointless. I hardly think you and your son make a carpool since he wouldn't be driving anyway.
28 ballardissmallilikeanonymity // Dec 9, 2009 at 12:01 pm
1. Thanks to multiple people for pointing out the bike/bus conflict. Sometimes its so bad that a single bicyclist winds up setting the de facto travel speed of a bus full of people for the entire 2-mile stretch. There's no good solution in the short term, but if you're the biker in question and a bus is tailgating you, it's better for everyone if you pull onto the sidewalk just long enough for the bus to get a couple stops ahead of you.
2. 90% of the bus lanes (or more) are legal parking outside of rush hours, though only 10-15% of it seems occupied most of the day. Still, the Interbay-business-parking lobby is vocal, so I wouldn't expect this to change. (They also demand that parking remain on at least one side of the street at all times, preventing use of the bus-lane in the counter-commute direction at rush hour, a disaster for bus riders from Ballard at that time.)
3. To the best of my knowledge, the bus lanes existed before the recent SDOT resurfacings; they were not specifically implemented for RapidRide, so MCC is wrong on that account. (If RapidRide ever does get implemented, the parking/bus-lane conflict will truly come to a head.) SDOT did make so minor lane-usage adjustments within one block of the Elliott/Magnolia Bridge interchange, but that's it.
4. The only MAJOR change made by SDOT during the project was to reprogram the Elliott/Mercer traffic light FOR THE WORSE. Anyone, bus rider or driver, who turns left onto Mercer frequently, must have noticed this change. The left turn signal used to operate on a 15-green for every 45-seconds-of-red cycle. Now it's 30-sec-green for every 90-sec-red most of the time, plus a NIGHTMARISH 45-sec-green for every 4.5-MINUTES-red between 2:30 and 7:30 PM. The idea is to give outbound commuters a straight shot to Ballard, but it backfires in every way. The much longer red ensures that dozens of cars will funnel up the hill at once, clogging the 5 blocks to Queen Anne Ave. The bus has to pull out of traffic to stop at 5th W. & 3rd W. Drivers, impatient from having waited nearly 5 minutes at the last light, never let the bus pull back out, and it ends up in the very back of the line, every time. Afternoon 15/18 buses now take 10 minutes longer to downtown than they used to. (Meanwhile, the outbound auto commuters who were supposed to be served by the change actual experience worse backups if they happen to hit the outbound red — although it happens less frequently, the 45-second-red backup takes much longer to get moving again than the old 15-second-red backup.)
29 Hmmf // Dec 9, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Why does everyone think it's the “Rich Magnolians” all the time? FYI some of are not wealthy and ride the bus or bike. Elliott Ave is a main road to downtown used by most of the northend not using the freeway or Aurora: Ballard, Green Lake, Greenwood, Karkeek, Shoreline, etc. When I lived in Edmonds and had to drive (OMG) downtown, I took Holman, 15th, then Elliott.
30 Hmmf // Dec 9, 2009 at 1:43 pm
damn magnolians, organizing and filing legal papers and stuff. richies.
31 BillyBilly // Dec 9, 2009 at 11:29 pm
In principle, I applaud what you're doing Charles - encouraging people to consider transit, as a concerned citizen. It's when it moves from encouragement and incentives to high-horse lectures or government mandates that I have issues.
If desiring 60-70 extra minutes each day to spend at home with my family is selfish, then I'm selfish. And no, commute time is not quality time.
Interesting thoughts on HOV. By your definition, nobody under 16, or who never earned a license, or who is disabled and can't drive, should count for HOV occupancy. Right? To be consistent.
32 BillyBilly // Dec 10, 2009 at 1:29 am
In principle, I applaud what you're doing Charles - encouraging people to consider transit, as a concerned citizen. It's when it moves from encouragement and incentives to high-horse lectures or government mandates that I have issues.
If desiring 60-70 extra minutes each day to spend at home with my family is selfish, then I'm selfish. And no, commute time is not quality time.
Interesting thoughts on HOV. By your definition, nobody under 16, or who never earned a license, or who is disabled and can't drive, should count for HOV occupancy. Right? To be consistent.
Leave a Comment (read our comment rules)