What do you expect ????

Those Lanes are a Joke.

It is common for that road to be congested around 9 a.m. on most days. Part of the problem I suspect is the free parking that starts at 9 a.m. along the street in the far right lane. Many times, people who work at the office complex across from the Shanty start idling their cars before 9 a.m. and then shut them off and go to work, blocking the bus lane, while the rest of us are battling to get into downtown. I’m all for free parking, but it seems to be creating a big problem along a major corridor into downtown.

Looks to me like incentive to ride a bike or take a bus, which may be the point of the BAT lane.

To add to my post above, and to answer the question ‘Are the BAT lanes working?’

No, they are not. People are still willing to sit in their cars on congested roads. Maybe traffic needs to be narrowed down to a single lane each way.

What does “are they working?” mean?

Are the buses on time more frequently due to avoiding car congestion? Probably.

Are more people taking the bus instead of driving? Who knows? I’m not.

Personally, the bus still takes me much longer than driving, even when the traffic is backed up like in the photo. Most days I ride my bike (on the awesome Myrtle Edwards trail), but if it’s really rainy or I have to run some errands right after work I drive.

The traffic would have to get MUCH worse, or I’d need a more direct bus route for me to take the bus.

Yes Jamie, that’s why I said, “Yes, I know there are some of you with valid reasons for needing to drive.”

Southbound traffic was jammed from near the Shanty when I came northbound on Elliott at about 8:30 a.m. with the traffic backed up the Magnolia Bridge ramp and north towards the Ballard Bridge. I returned with my camera at about 8:45 and took the pictures.

Bruce

The BAT lanes are stupid on their face – IF RapidRide gets funding, then perhaps the lanes should be opened then, but there will be thousands of lost hours of productivity in the meantime. Just wait until the Viaduct project starts, the impact of the Nickerson road diet is felt and the Mercer Street project gets underway… we Magnolians will be stuck on our island. I wonder if we can secede from the City?

Generally, I found traffic moved just fine with the BAT.

I used to commute by car along here, roughly between 8:30am-8:50am. (Stopped a couple months ago due to a new job in the opposite direction). Traffic tended be a bit heavier when I left earlier (8am-8:20am) but not significantly worse.

When would I find traffic being snarled?
- an accident, either on 15th/Elliot/Denny/Western/Hwy 99 (yes, an accident on 99 can snarl traffic up to the Magnolia bridge)
- cruise ship just disembarked passengers (please note a couple of taxis coming from the pier in photo looking southbound)

BAT sucks in my opinion.

The BAT lanes ARE NOT WORKING. I was in that mess this morning, it took me 10 minutes to get from the Mag bridge to the Shanty. In those 10 minutes, 2 buses used the BAT lane. Where are the cops? There were 6 cars that shouldn’t have been in the lane, but were (11 if you count the 5 Yellow cabs that used the lane too.) Didn’t see him today, but NUM1DAD in maroon Mercedes is a repeat offender.

Don’t blame the bus lanes – I have been commuting from Magnolia to downtown for years, and even before the BAT lanes traffic would back up like this at rush hours. For one, I am glad these were put in, it makes riding the bus a much more pleasurable experience.

@Rachel – While an easy drive can change in a minute, so can a difficult one. My point was that Bruce took a snapshot of a rainy Friday morning on cruise ship day when there was an accident near Denny and Elliot and called it typical. I took a snapshot of the same day during evening rush hour and had a completely different experience to highlight the absurdity of his argument. Also, as someone earlier said, do you really think everyone driving alone in their car in the morning HAS to be doing it? No – they do it b/c it’s convenient, even with the traffic. And please don’t talk about driving your car as a punishment. There are plenty of Magnolians who would trade sitting in traffic for 15-20 minutes if it came along with the all the conveniences of owning a car.

It’s just mind-blowing to me that so many people are surprised by traffic leading into a city center. And it’s only 2, MAYBE 3 hours out of the day. The other 21/22 hours are just fine for everyone. The BAT lanes are working as they were designed.

Ditto about going over queen anne. It’s also much faster to go around queen anne to bypass nickerson.

The chatter suggests that the purpose of the BAT lanes is big brother’s intention to punish drivers for taking their cars onto Elliott, regardless of their destination or the greenhouse gas consequences. Have we lost sight of using the public’s street to safely move the maximum number of people with minimal delay and pollution?
I too prefer to ride the bus downtown, but why not utilize the vacant BAT lanes which remain largely empty every day of the year.

Let’s compromise; remove all on street parking permanently from 15th/Elliot/Western from the Ballard Bridge to the Sculpture Park.
Then allow 2+ person carpools to use the BAT lanes. With this the busses shouldn’t be slowed down, and some congestion could be relieved from the main lanes.
Traffic slows down when cars have to merge/swerve back into the main lanes because of a parked car in the BAT lanes.
Whether you agree or not, this stretch of road is a major thoroughfare, and should be treated as such.

Doesn’t seem to matter what time i start in the morning anymore. Very frustrating when it take 20-45 mins to get from Magnolia to the viaduct entrance by AIS.
Bikers are happy, but heck they don’t follow the rules of the roads anyway, they go through redlights weave in and out of the car lanes, not safe for anyone, so why extra lane for them?…open up the lanes for all

It’s convenient to look at this path dependency of our built environment (captured well in the photos) as a pure binary, ‘eitherorism’ between car and transit. Our built environment was developed and sustained by the utility of cheap and easily accessible oil….as this utility continues to degrade over time, so will the current argument.

Ghostinprint…did you read the first two sentences of my post? I acknowledge that there are cyclists who disobey traffic laws, just like some drivers do.

If you don’t want to move then your only choice is to adapt to the necessary changes that come from living in a growing city that has no land on which to expand.

As for bikes and cars on the same road, I agree completely and would much rather be on a bike trail than a road. Unfortunately, the bike trails are not linked and/or complete which forces me on to the roads. So, instead of complaining about cyclists on the roads, why don’t you put your energy into advocating for the completion of bike trails?

Until then, I will continue to commute on my bike to my downtown Seattle office because I save nearly $300 a month on parking and gas, it keeps my blood pressure in check which in turn has reduced my health insurance premiums, and I get a federal tax credit because a certain percentage of my workforce uses alternative methods to get to work.

A catch-22 occurs when measures are being taken that create an incentive to avoid using your car, while public transit is not being provided at a level that can compensate. Not everyone can commute to a single location, spend all day there and then go home. I’d use my bicycle in a heartbeat if that were the case – maybe even the bus. However, I have to move around during the day and doing so by bike doesn’t work, for various reasons. I would love to be able to do so efficiently with public transportation – I lived in Rome for awhile and amid the chaos there, the transit system was phenomenal. I thoroughly enjoyed not having to rely on an automobile. Unfortunately, that is simply not the case here for anyone who doesn’t have hours to burn during the day.

Anyway, the better question for Magnolia Voice to ask would be a poll:

Where do you need to go that REQUIRES you to commute downtown in your car, versus taking the bus?

Frank…….thanks for giving me two choices, do what I say or lump it!

I will be spending my energy advocating for getting the bikes off the road or make them get a license and pay their fair share like a car does. Also, obey all the rules of the road and go the speed limit instead of holding up traffic.

You will see me in the hood probably with a petition. Want to sign?

Ghostinprint–I have two cars and pay the same license and registration fees you do, I just chose to leave my cars at home.

I am still confused what you are going to do about all of the drivers that don’t obey the rules of the road…

Anyway, I am off for a ride. I hope you are able to have a nice week despite your miserable commute on 15th. See ya!

Dear Ghost,
First, bikes and cars don’t pay taxes. They are objects, with no income. The operators of these vehicles pay taxes.

Next, just like Frank, I have to pay the same vehicle taxes/fees for my car, even though I rarely drive it. And I pay prpoerty taxes which fund local city roads; I say they are too high for the low impact I have on roads on my bike.
My taxes pay for buses, but I don’t ride the bus. Oh, and Harborview is tax funded, but I’ve never been there.I don’t use the library but pay for it. Get it? We all pay for services we don’t use. If only car drivers paid for all roads, you couldn’t afford to drive.

Many operators of vehicles violate some law, speeding, rolling stops, no signals.

As much as car drivers seem to dislike cyclists on the road, cyclists aren’t the problem on 15th.
Too many cars are the problem.

As for how stuff is paid for, thatguyinmagnolia is on the right track. City streets are paid for by general fund money, and we all (walkers, bus riders, shut-ins, drivers, bike riders) pay taxes. Cars cause lots of damage to roads (and houses and people), and drive up the need for very expensive infrastructure (roads, parking, etc.) People who rant about people paying for what they use should be careful what they wish for. Very few people would be able to afford to drive if drivers had to pay the full cost.

my commute takes place in the BAT lane! A++ Would ride daily!

Those pictures are beautiful. BAT lane clear and open for me to zip by on the 15. All of you sitting in those “parked” cars are welcome to join me. But move fast, we aint stoppin’

Why does everyone in Magnolia complain so much?

I take the 15 to work and it is noticably faster than driving.

When I do have to drive it seems as though illogical light placement is a big reason to car traffic being backed up. You can’t go a quarter of a mile without a red light. About half the lights are for a cross-walk or some random, seldom-used street. How about eliminating some of these lights?

Removing lanes of traffic and not timing the lights contributes to so much of our traffic. I have lived here for 10 years and have seen no significant improvement in light-timing. Taking out this 3rd lane was a joke.

This morning at 8AM all the cars were constantly moving from the Magnolia Bridge to Denny with hardly any brake lights. Not one backup was observed when I was biking down 15th. Is that typical, Bruce? If you anti-BAT lanes folks were truly interested in the effectiveness of the BAT lanes you’d be out there everyday with your cameras, not only on rainy, cruise ship Fridays.

PROBLEM: The major bus routes on 15th Ave (the 15 and 18) take a hard left at Mercer St, making the BAT lanes on on Elliott Ave West irrelevant. This turn is also tough on through-traffic by forcing the buses to cross 2 lanes of traffic to line up for the Mercer turn.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:

1) Change 15/18 or add a bus route to go straight to downtown along Elliott Ave. Do not pass through lower Queen Anne, do not collect $2.00.

2) Open up the BAT lane (and enforce parking) right after Mercer St., allowing more traffic to take the right fork towards the viaduct, but keep a section for bike lanes.

@Heather on the Hill – Since this is a Magnolia blog I think it’s fair to consider the #24 and #33 major bus routes too, not to mention the #19, which all travel down 15th. These buses go all the way to Denny, which make the BAT lanes on Elliot Ave West perfectly relevant. No solutions are needed.

Cpt. Barky – Let me know when you go. I’ll ride my bike about 2 minutes behind you and gleefully flip off the bus riders who will most certainly be irate. To them I say, get your fat ass on a bike and join me.

Heather on the Hill, the EXPRESS 15 and 18 already do exactly what you suggest in solution 1

I think they are working. If they weren’t there, then the bus commute wouldn’t be any faster than a car commute, meaning I would just drive my car instead, meaning even more vehicles on the road.

I’m not sure where folks are getting the idea that Buses never use those lanes. Between 8 and 9 am there are 17 buses using the southbound lane (total 15,17,18 bus routes) between Ballard and Downtown. That’s one every 3.5 minutes. I wish I knew what the average passenger load is, but the 15 express I usually take is standing-room only, so that’s 60 people right there.

Sure, not all of them would otherwise drive, but to my mind those lanes are doing a great job of moving people around the city and helping relieve congestion and also freeing up parking spaces.

When I drive to work I’m as annoyed as the next guy at the traffic -why the hell are all of you on the road and not in the bus? Fortunately there’s an easy solution! Leave early, take a different route. Easy to do when you’re not beholden to the bus schedule.

Hi Bruce. I am sorry no one agreed with you. Perhaps you should join us on the bus. bye bye bruce.

I don’t have a problem with these lanes. In fact, one reason I like them is they make us consider other options. I enjoy driving my car and wish I could drive everywhere, but for me it’s a little less expensive and less stressful to take a bus, even though it takes a few minutes longer. These lanes are a benefit to those of us who choose to ride the bus. If these lanes go away buses are stuck in traffic just like any other car. And then what will happen? Maybe we’ll just have more cars on the road…which in my mind isn’t an improvement. I say keep the lanes, and hopefully one day we’ll have trains running down 15th.

Putting aside the issue of the lunacy of having BAT lanes at all for a moment, can someone offer a cogent argument for why such lanes shouldn’t be available to all during non-commute hours – i.e., remove the mandatory right turn at each intersection restriction (the effect of which is to make the lanes not useable notwithstanding the conflicting signage)? If that were the case, I’d likely take the advice of some of the other posters and leave later in the morning (I already work late enough that the drive at night is no big deal).

Consider also if the photo were taken with a bus in it. Then, the head count would be 60 people on the bus, and 20 people in each of the other lanes.

How does that translate to the BAT lane not working?

Maybe if Magnolia residents took the bus this would be a non-issue?

WHY I CHOOSE TO DRIVE-
I carpool with my husband each morning 3.5 miles each way. We work at the same location. My car gets 30 MPG. It costs me CONSIDERABLY LESS MONEY AND TIME to carpool with my husband instead of leaving 30 minutes earlier and spending 5 times as much to take the bus.
BUS= Time and Money far beyond my existing carpool
Biking= are you kidding me? this city is cold and wet and NO I do not want to carry a change of clothes everywhere i go.. This is just not my priority when I can drive there in less time and use a fractional amount of gas while saving bus fare….

Maybe if the buses were, I don’t know, on time and not severely over-crowded I MIGHT consider taking one (I wouldn’t). I actually did try to take the 33 on Friday. Got to my stop 10 minutes early. Bus didn’t show. 15 minutes after it was scheduled to arrive I gave up, got in my car, and drove downtown, now late for my appt. I’ll stick with the car.

There are never any cops along that route anyway. That’s why cabs and the occasional impatient motorist never get caught when they use those BAT lanes. I’ve done it myself here and there, but mostly I’m in no hurry to get to work, so I just sit in my single occupant car and enjoy the pollution.

Well, considering that Magnolia residents are more likely to vote against any taxes towards buses, it seems like they get what they deserve with bus service.

chris, so you missed the bus. no reason to blame the BAT on that.

So Chris admits the buses are overcrowded. I think that answers the question as to whether the bus lanes are working.

Humpty Dumpty.. carpooling 3.5 miles to work is NOT lazy.. It is very responsible to live and work nearby. I put about 5k miles a year on my car and keep everything very local. Seattle is a carptastic place to be a bike rider and so NO thanks! Driving gives me time to go to the gym that is not cold and rainy and potentially dangerous unlike the roads outside.
You should all be upset with the jerks that commute into and out of the city each day. It’s those who are driving 20+ miles each way that are the issue..
Sorry i like to stay dry Humpty .. but thanks for being judgemental.

I like the BAT lanes because quite frankly, I drive in them. If a cop sees me and tickets me, I think that is really a decent price to pay for moving along at a decent pace.

Please, by all means, everyone else should follow the law and sit in traffic for 3 times the amt of time it should take to get anywhere.

Coming back to the basic question, no, the BAT lanes aren’t working for many Magnolians.

As pointed out by others, the transit service to Magnolia is mediocre. And, there are a lot of professionals in Magnolia who need to do more than just go to work and come home most days, which means they need a car to get between locations. So, Magnolians are making a choice to continue driving despite ridiculous delays, because the transit service isn’t good enough or it doesn’t work for their life/work style. That’s what these photos demonstrate.

Also, the number of buses that use the BAT lanes south of Mercer Place is pretty darn low because of the number that use Mercer Place instead of Elliott.

In my view, the BAT lanes should be removed at least south the Magnolia Bridge, and maybe even south of Dravus and there should be no parking 24-7 in all lanes. Only if and when viable “rapid ride” style transit is available — with access inside Magnolia — should the lanes be considered to be re-installed. And some actual traffic studies would be nice to see before the City acts next time.

I see the transit Taliban are out in full force.

Regular people will use transit when it’s convenient. When it’s not, we won’t. I rarely rent a car when visiting New York, Chicago, Washington or any European capital because it’s rarely necessary. Their transit goes where you need to go and is safe and reliable.

Condescending lectures to your neighbors will change no one’s mind. Nor is trying to FORCE people to change their lifestyle by increasing congestion a smart strategy (plus idling traffic is incredibly bad for the environment).

I value my freedom to choose. And I will (and already do) gladly choose transit when it provides more value and convenience than driving. Focus on that and the riders will come.

Wow Naenmagnolia, talk about being judgemental… I’m one of the “jerks” you refer to who have to drive 20+ miles to and from work each day. I have always worked in Seattle until I got laid off last November. I’ve spent the last 7 months applying for jobs and interviewing like crazy, the only place that ended up offering me a job is in Tacoma. I guess I should have checked with my anti-commuter neighbors prior to accepting this job.

I have made the mistake of taking 15th to highway 99 a couple of times – the gridlock is crazy. It takes 20-30 minutes sometime to get to the entrance of 99. I now go over the top of Queen Anne and get on 99 that way.

If there were good connections via bus or train, I would gladly take them. I’ve looked at all of the schedules, and taking transit would turn my 1 hour each way commute into a 2+ hour each way excursion. I think these BAT lanes should be open to everyone until the rapid ride system is in place – they aren’t working.

Correction above:
“Just because your own situation might allow you…”

@czb – You’ve hit the nail on the head. I agree that most people who are saying the BAT lanes aren’t working are not opposed to transit. I certainly am not. I had an entire decade in my life where the Metro bus system was my primary form of transportation. That was then, this is now. Now, the transit system doesn’t work well for me or, I believe, most Magnolians who commute to the south and east. Improve the transit system and the BAT lanes will work. Keep things as they are, and the BAT lanes don’t work.

I’m also one of the “jerks” who commute 20 miles to the Eastside. I would LOVE to work downtown and commute by bus. But I lost my job at Wamu and wasn’t able to find a job. I take a vanpool
to Redmond – I’d much prefer to take the bus but it’d be a 2 hour+ commute. I’d like to see better east-west bus service. As for BAT, take out he parking lane and replace it with a bike-only lane like they do in other cities.

I don’t honor them. I routinely and proudly ignore them. It’s my civil disobedience and disregard for this STOOOOPID road restriction and a big FINGER to all of the those car hating bike worshippers. I used my real full name. I don’t care who doesn’t like it. If you see a silver audi a6 driving in the right lanes like he just doesn’t care, its me. Get behind me and enjoy the rush of using the roads we pay taxes to drive on.

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