A group has formed in opposition to Magnolia’s off-leash dog area. Their complaints include non-stop barking, filth and increased neighborhood crime.? From their flier:
We are a group of Magnolia residents who are very concerned about the? escalating noise and crime in our previously peaceful neighborhood.
Magnolia Manor Park ? and it?s off-leash dog run ? has brought daily (and nightly) noise and filth to our once-quiet neighborhood. People are not controlling their behaviors or the behaviors of their dogs. Incessant barking is the norm, and feces is not picked up and disposed of. Crime has been steadily? increasing. Just two years ago, our area was quiet and safe, but the increased usage of this park has brought a severe downgrade to the quality of life of it?s immediate neighbors ? who rent, own, and? pay high rates to live in this area of north Magnolia.
Crime in Magnolia is a daily occurrence. View a map, locations by crime type, and the actual police reports (compiled each day) at:? (Keep in mind that these are only the crimes that were reported ? many do go unreported.)Some of the issues:
? Break-ins, theft, and vandalism
? Auto theft
?? Drug sales and use occurring in and around the park
? An ever-changing enclave of people living out of their camper vans (23rd and Gilman)
? Increased ?tagging? (graffiti) now appearing throughout the neighborhood
In our apartment house, we have experienced:? Multiple car break-ins/property thefts
? Thefts of autos; some were never recovered intact
?? A brazen, broad-daylight break-in (mid-morning climb-in through a window; the burglar discovered the sleeping tenant and ran out. This just happened in early April.)
?? Vandalized mailboxes (locked, metal indoor boxes were bent/pried open with a tool to get the contents out,? also in April.)
? A dead body (drug overdose in a parked car at our parking lot?s cul-de-sac)
We have recently found hypodermic needles in the park. We have also been repeatedly woken in the middle of weeknights (3:00, 4:00am, etc.) because of everything from loud voices and barking dogs to fireworks. We listen to multiple dog fights every week. One of us has recently seen people having sex in the park. As our weather improves, the overall situation will escalate ? and continue it?s deterioration ? just as it did last summer.
We are tax payers, business owners, and productive, law-abiding citizens who deserve to have our concerns taken seriously by the Seattle Police, the Parks Department, and all others who are involved with the ongoing developments at Magnolia Manor Park. We have already endured enough!
If you are as concerned about your quality of life, your safety and your property values as we are, the following page will outline what you can do to Help Keep Magnolia Peaceful.?? Call/write the following people: – Christopher Williams, Seattle Parks Superintendent 206-684-2489? christopher.williams@seattle.gov. The Superintendent is the final decision-maker as to whether the off-leash area (OLA) receives a permanent status.? The park is now in the ?evaluation process? and he will make his final determination in the Fall.
Currently, Magnolia Manor Park is the only off-leash park situated in close proximity to residences. (For instance, the Golden Gardens,? Greenlake, Marymoor, and Magnuson Park OLAs are not in areas that could disturb residents.) If you believe that an? off-leash area is not appropriate for our densly-populated area of north Magnolia, please contact him immediately to register your complaints and concerns. – Leah Tivoli, Off-leash Liason, Seattle Parks & Recreation leah.tivoli@seattle.gov.
The Parks Dept writes: ?Leah will present her recommendation to the Board of Park Commissioners. The Park Board will consider it, and will solicit public testimony and hold a public hearing as part of the formal evaluation process. After considering both verbal and written testimony, the Park Board will deliberate and make their recommendation to the Parks Superintendent. The Superintendent will then make his determination.? We expect the evaluation process to take place this summer and fall, and the final determination to be made before the end of the year.?
Please register your concerns with Leah. Also email Rachel Acosta (Park Board Coordinator) at rachel.acosta@seattle.gov to be placed on their notification list about the Park Board?s public process, upcoming meetings, and for information on how to submit testimony during the public comment period to come later this year. – Patrick Jones, COLA (Coalition for Off Leash Areas) 206-264-5573? coladog.org COLA is the group that works to establish off-leash areas in and around Seattle. They need to hear from those of us who don?t welcome the downgrade in quality of life that an off-leash like Magnolia Manor Park creates. We don?t object to their basic concept; only that there are inapropriate locations for off-leash runs, and our neighborhood is inappropriate.
– City Council members who have direct involvement in Parks planning: Sally Bagshaw: sally.bagshaw@seattle.gov Tom Rasmussen: tom.rasmussen@seattle.gov Richard Conlin: richard.conlin@seattle.gov.
– Seattle Police West Precinct Community Policing Team 206-684-8996. Call them for chronic, on-going problems that have not been resolved by calling 9-1-1. Every call counts!
The people lobbying for this park and it?s off-leash area have been quite successful in pushing their viewpoints, to the detriment of our neighborhood. They do not live adjacent to the park? as we do. We believe they wouldn?t want this situation playing out in their front yards! We need to be just as vocal that we will not tolerate the noise and crime that has been brought to our formerly peaceful haven. Please make your concerns known to the proper authorities! Thank you.
We would love to know your thoughts! Do you frequent the OLA? Are you a fan? Are you opposed?
Yeah there’s nothing like going to the good ‘ol Magnolia dog park to score drugs, shoot up and have sex!
This post is a joke , right? It’s more ridiculous than the “peanut shell scattering” post from awhile back!
Actually, as bizarre as it sounds… scores of people have those stupid shells and the damned squirrels. You are just lucky you don’t have an exterminator bill. I had to seal them in my attic where they all died… no smell, by the way, if an exterminator tells you otherwise. If I could I’d seal in the old lady that spreads those peanuts….
Younger than you, actually.
Guess what? Squirrels poop in the park, too.
You have no idea what my age is since I post under about 12 names. Squirrels eat wiring in houses when they get in… so attracting them isn’t my great pleasure in life. Do you own a home? I don’t care where they poop as long as they stay out of my house
This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read. It’s a bunch of uptight old people who are using the urbanization of their precious SFH neighborhood as a reason to close the dog park.
I will admit that the noise has gotten worse. People are letting their dogs bark ALL THE TIME there. It’s bad enough that even if you try to tell people to shush their dogs, they get mad at you. Maybe we need a security person to sit around for a few days and monitor it.
But the camper vans on 23rd and Gilman have been there for YEARS. They were there over 6 years ago when I lived on 22nd.
Break-ins are not right around the dog park. They’re all over town. I have noticed increased graffiti as well, but it’s not isolated to the dog park. Car thefts are common-ish occurrences, to blame it on the dog park is ridiculous and shows the depths these people will sink to so they can close the dog park.
Teenagers have sex, and drink, and do stuff. If you want it to stop at the park, how about you whiny ass people let us install the lights we wanted in the park? It’s a dark place, of course teenagers are going to abuse it. That’s just what they do. And if it wasn’t this park, it’s going to be some other park. You’re complaining about teenagers being teenagers on your precious green lawn.
If these concerns are truly valid, photographic and video evidence forwarded to the cops will suffice. Get an officer stationed around there.
As a user of the park, I find that I know my neighbors better. I have talked with others who own dogs, who I never would have interacted with before. Nearly all people who use the park extoll its virtues. And don’t forget that before it was an official OLA, it was used unofficially as an OLA. I predict that it will return to that, even if this group is successful.
If this group of people wants a healthy dose of good old-fashioned gated communities to keep out the “undesirables,” they’re perfectly free to move to the east side. I hear Issaquah is great these days…
If this group does use all these lame excuses to shut down the park, you had better believe that some of us will not take it lying down. You’d better be ready to see a lot more noise making. Part of living in a city, and one that’s growing quite quickly, is that more people live together. Sometimes, some of those people are assholes. But, if you don’t give good people a place to let their dogs run, they’re going to run all over the neighborhood. You’ll see them at the “closed” park — bolt cutters are cheap. You’ll see them all over Discovery Park because there’s not a lot of law enforcement there. You’ll see them on the baseball fields in the center of town. You’ll see them in Church lawns. You’ll see them on tennis courts.
I’m not going to drive over the ballard bridge to take my dog to Golden Gardens. That’s a 20 minute trip each way. And then the Ballard Bridge, which goes up (it feels like) every 5 minutes. If these people think that closing the park will result in less crime and less noise, they are sadly mistaken.
Jesus Christ, I am a dog lover and I walk my dog an hour a day and disturb no one. The few times I’ve walked by the park… which every vet will tell you to avoid for the health of your pet from worms and disease in feces,… it is people chatting while the dogs do their thing. I strongly oppose a few lazy dog owners too unfit to walk their dogs, ruining the quality of life of people with mortgages who live there and want a peaceful life there.. Drive to Golden Gardens? I just walk out my door and walk for an hour. Do you own a dog or does the dog own you? Walking your dog is healthier for him and healthier for you. You don’t need to drive anywhere. In nature dogs can walk 20 miles a day, so they adjust to what we give them, and I believe that should be exercise with respect to your neighbors.
One of the things our dog loves most is playing with other dogs off-leash. We walk our dog an hour or more each day, and on top of that, we frequent the dog park. Our vet says dog parks are fine as long as you watch what your dog is doing, not everyone is there for social hour. Be careful about throwing out rash judgement just because people take their dog to a dog park.
As others have suggested, the correlation between the dog park and crime is completely absurd.
The core issue is that what your dog loves most is not more important than the suffering it causes other people. Your vet may say “as long as you watch what your dog is doing” and mean not bothering all the other dogs who want to play. IT is always a few dominant dogs who do their thing and others who cannot. I have worked with vets for years, and over half of the intestinal problems seen in young dogs come from dog parks or being kept in an equally filthy environment. And yes, the dog park and crime correlation is absurd.
There’s been an abundance of research into these issues already. Other cities have OLA’s, including SF, which established a commission to investigate before approving, and NYC which has 40 of them. All of the research indicates that well maintained OLAs like Magnolia Manor are healthy for dogs and people. Off-leash areas promote socialization of canines (and people) and provide many tangible benefits in the health, temperament and overall well-being of the animals.
bullshit. Any dog that is intimidated by the larger dogs is forced to leave. Maybe 5 people get to enjoy it at any one time. In NYC it is better than walking in a crowd, but not better than a dog being walked in nearby Discovery Park… on leash… which any of the dog park people could do. Anyway, what is done is done, and those dog park people can just do the cleanup and not expect anyone else to “donate” to their personal little playground. Let them do all the work and pay all the bills. When a dog is attacked there who will pay for the lawsuit?
You are obviously entitled to skip the dog park, but that’s no reason to make ridiculous statements about the people and dogs who use it. We walk to the dog park when we go; it’s not some sort of cop out for people who can’t exercise. People tend to take their dogs there because socialization with other dogs is healthy, because the dogs can run around, and because it’s fun, for humans and dogs. As for your statements about the park being unhealthy for dogs, the vets I know don’t agree with that, and our dog is healthy. Note that one of the main speakers at the celebratory opening was from the Magnolia vet. No one is obligated to go there, but spare us the nasty and totally unfounded attacks on people who enjoy it.
Young dogs absolutely get worms and intestinal issues at dog parks where there are feces residue. I’m sure you can see the logic to that. Dogs like to socialize, sure…but many many dogs get intimidated and bullied at those parks…so the owners don’t use the park. So in the end, maybe 5 dogs have fun socializing there at any one time and no one else can go in if they have a Yorkie and there is a dominant Newfie there…. And this is worth all the neighbors being bothered? I”m sure a vet is delighted you use the park…they’ll see more of you.
Dogs can walk anywhere. They CANNOT be off-leash anywhere. That’s why these OLAs exist. Or are you in favor of letting dogs off-leash throughout the city?
My post is clear. No off leash. Research has shown dogs benefit from long walks just as much as being off leash. Actually in areas where dogs are off leash most of the time (like Skagit) they die younger, eating poisons or being hit by cars. The truth is the vision of seeing their dog running is what turns people on…and of course dogs love running. But as for the actual health of the dog…a lengthy daily walk on a leash has been proven to be just as beneficial. So the off leash myth is purely to satisfy a human need, not the dog’s. Watching a dog run is not more important than bothering human beings. I have owned and loved dogs all my life, but I still put people first.
Perhaps you didn’t notice that the OP lives in an apartment. This is most definitely not a SFH neighborhood. It is the most densely populated part of Magnolia and has been for decades: mainly apartments and some condos. Also, it is true that Magnolia Manor is the only OLA in the city situated in a residential area. Try to imagine what it must be like to smell dog waste and hear dogs barking incessantly.
Regrade Park OLA in Belltown is surrounded by apartment buildings. It’s a much more densely populated residential neighborhood. Those neighbors aren’t stoking a moral panic.
As a regular user of the dog park, I’m sorry that some neighbors are unhappy and hope park users can continue working to be good neighbors. However, I am very skeptical that the problems discussed in this post have anything to do with the park. I see poop and poop bags left discarded all over Magnolia (unfortunately–some owners are definitely not responsible); but if anything it’s cleaner around the park. And I can’t figure out why people think the park attracts crime. That too happens throughout the neighborhood, though much less than in most places in the city. As another poster mentioned, the area used to be an informal OLA. The only difference now is that it has been spruced up and organized. Many of us find the park to be a real amenity in a neighborhood without much else going on (few good restaurants or shops, etc.) To the extent that the problems people perceive are real and stem from the park, let’s work pragmatically, not hysterically, to solve them, and not throw out the baby with the bath water. There may be a vocal minority of people who have criticisms of the park for whatever reasons, but it has a large and loyal following who really value it, even if they may not be taking part in a Magnolia Voice brawl.
There are cranks in every neighborhood who can’t stand the idea that someone somewhere is enjoying life.
This was an entertaining read.
Unless dogs are breaking into homes, stealing cars, or creating graffiti then they’re not the ones responsible for these crimes on Magnolia. This is a feeble attempt to draw a correlation between crime on Magnolia and the dog park. How many buglers do you know who bring their dogs with them when they go on a crime spree?
What they really are against is having a park here in the first place. Sorry… too late. And I don’t believe you can conclusively tie any of what they mention to the presence of a park, anyway.
Maybe not the crime part, but absolutely the noise pollution and the poop all over the place. That is conclusive. I walk by there every day and I feel sorry for the neighbors…a few people sit on a bench while their dogs mill around, and everyone in the surrounding area has to endure it.
There’s not “poop all over the place.” And it’s not very noisy. It’s not some big struggle to “endure” a few people sitting on benches while their dogs mill around.
The smell is. I pass there every day and there is poop on the parking strip and on the neighbor’s lawns. So sad.
Correction. Richard Conlin was voted out of office and no longer is a City Councilman.
Neighbors, meet Kshama Sawant…
I just bought a house two blocks from Magnolia Manor Park a couple of years ago, and I am stunned to see that people think it’s a problem. I’m glad this was posted, because I will now write to all those e-mails above and ask that the park be retained.
This is probably the most quiet and peaceful neighborhood I’ve ever lived in in this city, where I was born 39 years ago. In fact, I could honestly do with a little more activity.
Thanks for the tip!
say what you will about this particular park, but in general, dog owners are a pretty lame bunch in this city – poop bags all over, the “my dog must go unleashed” a-holes, and the fact that they seem to think anything their precious doogie does is wonderful, etc, etc
moral to the story – have a large enough yard for a dog or don’t own one.
Wow, broad brush. So only rich folks should own dogs, eh?
No Benjamin. Only people willing to walk their dogs should own one. They shouldn’t impose their dogs on other people. People in Manhattan own dogs and don’t have yards. Dogs in yards don’t exercise themselves either generally,…they lie around, like their owners do in front of the TV inside. Don’t get a dog if you don’t want to commit to exercising him or her without making other people suffer for your dog ownership. That is why I intensely dislike cats that are let out of their houses…they kill birds at feeders and leave messes in other people’s yards. If you have a cat, which cannot be walked…keep it inside where it only fouls up your own place.
Fortunately, we have statistical tools available to deal with stuff like this. The image below is for property crime (larceny, auto theft, & burglary) for 2008-2013. I can’t identify a particular upturn in crime in 2013 (the park opened in Nov., 2012).
Thank you. I appreciate data over anecdotes.
There was an article in the PI in 2008 about a wave of burglaries in Magnolia…4 1/2 years before the dog park opened.
Maybe it was caused by unleashed time-traveling dogs and/or their owners?!?
I am so disappointed to read this letter/article. I go to the dog park multiple times during the week and have not experienced what is being described. The dog owners are friendly and all work together to keep the dogs quiet. Every once in a while there is a barker but everyone tries to band together to stop it. As for not picking up after their dogs… I live in Magnolia and take my dog for frequent walks and always pick up after my dog however I’ve noticed that others do not. So this is not an exclusive issue in and around the dog park. As for crime being described – I’ve never seen people dealing drugs, breaking into cars etc… People who go to the dog park live in Magnolia – families with kids etc… If crime is on the rise it’s from the lack of police presence in magnolia in general not the dog park.
Try living right next to it. Dog parks should be away from residences.
Well, since we are talking about dogs and poo… I live by Lawton Park and unfortunately there are regular dog deposits all over the park on a daily basis even feet away from play structures. I removed one yesterday that was right by where all the kids were running around for field day. Please, please, please pick up after your dog! And Lawton is not an off-leash park. There are small children playing, there is forest restoration work going on AND it’s obvious that owners don’t always know where there dog is pooping.
We’re not talking generally about “dogs and poo,” we’re talking about the Magnolia Manor Off Leash Area. But If you want a better controlled situation, then it makes sense to support the OLA.
Dog parks and dog feces not being picked up in dog parks… ah, “dogs and poo”. And yes, I’m a supporter of OLA in hopes that it will lessen the problems in other areas caused by dogs and dog owners.
Hardly. Whatever gets deposited in a dog park remains, even after it is scooped up. Would you let your child play in an area where other children pooped and it was scooped up. Dog parks are filthy places that only serve to make humans feel good that their dogs are “exercising”. Any place in Magnolia…or anywhere…dogs are walked, there will be poop left behind, and its a joke to think a parasite sinkhole like an off leash area is going to lessen that. Just think how many dogs defecate there…and you want your dog to run around there…why exactly? Not one dollar will I ever spend to support such a place so close to homes in a tightly inhabited residential area. It is pure human vanity.
Pssst…. the ocean is full of fish poop, too.
Which feeds other life forms. In tight little Magnolia it just gives diarrhea to the next chihuahua who dares to brave the big guys hogging the dog park. I haven’t needed a vet for my dogs for 14 years except for shots, so I am pretty sure I’m not not wrong here.
I agree we should control barking and poop. My dog’s a chihuahua mix so he can get noisy, but rarely persists for a long time. And we only use it during daytime hours. I know people have varying schedules but that’s the best we can do. Let’s make sure there are poop bags stocked just in case people forget or lose theirs.
How on earth does the park cause car break ins, vandalism, drug overdoses, and campers on gilman (Really??? Be thankful you have a house in a good neighborhood)? Not to trivialize the sadness of the overdose, but you think someone decided to shoot heroin in their car (or go break in somewhere, or vandalize something) because their dog was happily occupied in the park?
http://www.seattledogspot.com/blog/dog-blog/post/group-forms-to-oppose-magnolia-dog-park
This topic is too much?it really is. Ranks right up there with the recent rash of women in short tennis skirts seen around Magnolia. There is no statistical evidence that a dog park increases crime.
I have so many questions about this. I will start with the most ridiculous claim. How does the dog park on 28th cause the camper van situation on Gilman?
So kind of related?.my question here regarding dog parks?..and the smell, poop all over, noise, and crime that takes place in them?..if one is buying a house next to or very near is it proper that the seller need to disclose about all this (since they have to fill out a 6 page disclosure statement when they list for sale)? I ask because while not here in Magnolia but another Seattle neighborhood just to the north I have a friend who’s house is three doors down from a designated dog park and is thinking of selling.
I can’t believe that you’d even publish this. This is garbage. Bring back the papers at least the had some editorial control.
I have a small white poodle that loves to run around the
park at full speed so I agree I have a bias.
(We also like to hike and walk.) I also enjoy meeting the neighbors at
the dog park. It reminds me of a small
piazza in Italy where people gather. Why
don?t we discard some of the highly questionable points like the dog park caused an
increase in crime or the dog park is bad for the health of our dogs or the dog park
is controlled by four or five dogs and the other dogs are afraid. Short of the nuclear option being proposed of closing the
dog park, aren’t there some other things that can be done to meet some of the
needs of some of the neighbors by the park.
I agree the trash cans with dog poop can smell on a hot day. Why don?t we have the trash cans picked up
more frequently? We can also declare the
dog park a ?no barking? dog park so people can step in when a dog barks more
than once or twice. Like the sign at the
dog park says, there is no ?poop fairy? so besides picking up after our own
dogs we can bring extra bags and pick up along the perimeter of the park and on
our walks for the very few people who don?t pick up after their dogs.
Sounds like the main point you’re trying to get across is that you’re afraid of new people coming into your neighborhood. In which case maybe you should move to a gated community that is secure and won’t have any amenities for dogs. Then you wouldn’t have to have agoraphobia due to living near a dog park, and you may be able to make the connection that dogs don’t drive and/or park camper vans, nor do they wield spray paint and creatw graffiti or orchestrate break-ins. Or steal cars. Or deal drugs. The people are your problem, just admit it.